Curse

Jam Jar · Mar 06, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Could someone recommend an IAS? I don't have nightfall or GWEN so flail is out of the question.

I've tried out flurry and frenzy, but the damage output wasn't that great with flurry, and frenzy... kinda killed me. Berzerker Stance is what I'm using right now, but I actually want to have the attack speed boost when I'm using my skills.

I’m using this as of now:

15 Hammer
10 Strength
8 Tactics

1. Devastating Blow {Elite}
2. Heavy Blow
3. Crushing Blow
4. Distracting Blow
5. Berzerker Stance
6. Healing Signet
7. Sprint
8. Resurrection Signet

I think that this will need a lot of work ._.

Racthoh · Mar 06, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I have no clue how well Zealous works on hammers, but Flurry was the best option before Flail PvE-wise. You still get a minor damage boost along with the same increased rate of adrenaline gain as Flail.

If it's PvP, you'll have to go with Frenzy and be quick to hit Sprint. Or go with Rush but be careful with Heavy Blow.

Luminarus · Mar 06, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Simple:

[skill]Frenzy[/skill] + [skill]Rush[/skill]

Use frenzy when attacking, and when u start taking dmg cancel with rush

Or if u really hate frenzy, Tiger Stance can be good for attacking.

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 06, 2008, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Frenzy will hurt without a prot spirit or a shield to blunt the damage, so unless you're good with a cancel stance you''re left with Flurry and Tiger Stance. They're both fairly meh, but it's the best you've got.

Luminarus · Mar 06, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

If ur not good with a cancel stance then tiger stance is a better option, because losing damage from flurryREALLY SUCKS!

I guess i just kinda dont like either coz one kills ur damage overall, the other means no IAS slightly less then 50% of the time.

Frenzy + Cancel stance is best if u can use it, if not try and get NF and use flail with a cancel stance

Jam Jar · Mar 06, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

er.... yeah.... well thn i guess if i use frenzy+rush, than I'm pretty much screwed if im the last one standing

also what if I put on frenzy and 2 eles strike...

o_o hope for stance?

Luminarus · Mar 06, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

If ur the last man standing in pve, u should retreat and try to rez.

In PVP you have already lost so it really doesnt make that big of a deal.

Then the second u notice, u change to rush. Under frenzy, u essentially get reduced to caster level (80-40+16 = 56) So, getting hit by 2 spells isnt going to kill you. If ur gonna get hit by a team spike, then unless ur monks fast enough ur gonna die anywayz, and frenzy didnt really do much. Finally frenzy's drawback is the least cumbersome of the non elite IAS's

Berserker Stance, cant be used with skills
Tiger Stance, unmaintainable
Flurry, reduces damage
Flail, slows u down
Tigers Fury (Ranger Line) forces secondary, costs more, disables some skills and isnt maintainable.
Considering the warriors job is to do damage, frenzy allows the warrior to succeed with the least problematic draw back.

Jam Jar · Mar 06, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

I used to have a thumper that used tigers fury instead of RaO, but sometimes he had trouble with warriors since he had no armor penetration.

Yeah woops... back to topic.

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

All IAS comes with a drawback of some kind.

I have access to all IAS skills and quite a lot of the time I don't use any. Obviously with a Vampiric Weapon or Conjure X build, IAS is a strong benefit. This is when I tend to use it more often (although I rarely bother with Conjure X....Vampiric is nice).

I read a lot on here about IAS being ESSENTIAL but there are so many other good skills out there it often doesn't make it onto my bar. Frenzy/Flail as mentioned above require a cancel stance so demand two slots.

If the aim is to inflict the maximum DPS, I can put an extra attack skill on there instead, which will have the benefit of not snaring me, doubling my damage received, or removing my Adrenaline!

Best PvE IAS is Flail as the AI rarely kites. It makes a lovely partner for Enraging Charge which (at 14 Str) can charge it up in 1 hit or of course cancel it when required.

For PvP you'll be targeted far less and need more single-target damage so Frenzy/Rush is the option, for self-cancel and pursuing kiters (with Bull's Strike).

Having said this, if you're playing PvE and want to land as many hits as possible in as short a space of time, stand in mobs and use multi-attacks like Cyclone Axe, Whirlwind Attack etc. You get lots of hits but with +damage from the skill and none of the penalties linked to IAS.

Specifically @OP.... if you don't have access to Flail/Engraging charge then you're missing the best PvE option. Tiger Stance doesn't have any penalties but has a sucky recharge. Flurry is a waste of time unless you have some benefit such as an enchantment or Vampiric Weapon. Beserker Stance is fact isn't bad at all, but the best usage of it is to combine it with a skill that either costs a lot of adrenaline or reduces you to zero anyway. In this category I would place Backbreaker, Final Thrust, Shove and (I guess) Decapitate.

Overall, though, get Nightfall. :-)

Savio · Mar 06, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

I read a lot on here about IAS being ESSENTIAL but there are so many other good skills out there it often doesn't make it onto my bar.

There is no reason you can't fit an IAS on a warrior skillbar. 50% more attacks, 50% more adrenaline, and 50% more damage outweighs any attack skill you could bring.

Quote:

It makes a lovely partner for Enraging Charge which (at 14 Str) can charge it up in 1 hit or of course cancel it when required.

You could charge Flail in 1 hit at 10 Strength.

Cebe · Mar 06, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I have no clue how well Zealous works on hammers,

I find Zealous is ok when you want to chuck out a lot of Crude Swings and Whirlwind Attacks, Crude Swing can drain a Warrior's Energy quite quick without Zealous in my opinion. Outside of that situation... *shrug*

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Flail is okay on a Hammer bar, but sucks on anything else.
Frenzy is just okay on any bar if you know how to use it, easy if you ask me.

The rest of the warrior IAS's are...bad.

Bobby2 · Mar 06, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

<------ runs no cancel stance for Flail in PvE

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

<------ runs no cancel stance for Flail in PvE

I forgot to mention PvE

Sorry, I've been a stupid lately. lern me a book!

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

There is no reason you can't fit an IAS on a warrior skillbar. 50% more attacks, 50% more adrenaline, and 50% more damage outweighs any attack skill you could bring.

I would agree, except they all come with some kind of penalty, and an extra attack skill or PvE only skill wouldn't. Plus, as already mentioned, IAS which has such a serious penalty it requires a cancel stance, this takes two slots. So we have to assess whether IAS is better than the potential damage from two other skills.

Too often people make a statement that is valid for one of PvE/PvP but not the other, and then someone posts the opposite - they are both right but don't mention whether they are talking about PvE or PvP. This creates the impression of countless arguments when they are in fact both valid about seperate things.

I would say that in PvE, saying IAS is essential in all situations, especially saying that Frenzy is essential, is just wrong. There isn't a single skill in this game that is essential.

Please note that I am not arguing against IAS. I use it a lot. I am arguing against the idea that it is essential.

For example, for skill #4 on my bar I have to choose between IAS or 'I am the Strongest'. Maybe IAS gives me slightly more damage but it comes with a penalty. IATS doesn't. Once you reach high levels in PvE skills there are half a zillion great skills pushing to be on there.

In PvP, the situation is clearer, yes. No PvE skills and much more single-target-damage requirement. Added to that the need to exert pressure while building for Adrenal spikes....yes, I would say there is a 'very good argument' for IAS in PvP (note I don't say essential).

Tyla · Mar 06, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

IAS isn't essential, but it makes a hell of a difference when it comes to things dying and you being the cause.

~ Dan ~ · Mar 06, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

IAS isn't essential

No, it really is.

Torqual · Mar 06, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

1. Devastating Blow {Elite}
2. Heavy Blow
3. Crushing Blow
4. Distracting Blow
5. Berzerker Stance
6. Healing Signet
7. Sprint
8. Resurrection Signet

Is this build intended for PvE or PvP?

The overall problem (as you point out) is that it uses an attack chain, making it totally incompatible with Beserker Stance. If you want non-Nightfall IAS I'd go for Tiger Stance with Strength at the 'magic' value of 14 giving you 10 seconds duration. Ditch Tactics if you are only using it for Heal Sig. Put Endure Pain in and if your health is low, hit it and go to your monk for a heal. My recommendation is 14Str/13Hammer. You'll get an extra 4% armour penetration and you can wear Sentinel's armour with that :P.

Flem · Mar 06, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

No, it really is.

essential: absolutely necessary; vitally necessary

No, it's not.

For most it's preferred, recommended, and very commonly used. But not essential.

ShadowsRequiem · Mar 06, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

Is this build intended for PvE or PvP?

The overall problem (as you point out) is that it uses an attack chain, making it totally incompatible with Beserker Stance. If you want non-Nightfall IAS I'd go for Tiger Stance with Strength at the 'magic' value of 14 giving you 10 seconds duration. Ditch Tactics if you are only using it for Heal Sig. Put Endure Pain in and if your health is low, hit it and go to your monk for a heal. My recommendation is 14Str/13Hammer. You'll get an extra 4% armour penetration and you can wear Sentinel's armour with that :P.

Why not just go 14 hammer and 13 str. and imo endure pain is crap.